Champions?

[cailano]

So, I've been prepping a Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign, but I've also been thinking.... there's a ton of fantasy games on this site and plenty of 5E. Maybe I should do something different?

And then I thought... Champions! For those who don't know, Champions is a superhero game that's been around forever but continues to see new and updated material. It uses the HERO system rules and a very detailed character creation system. You can literally make the exact powers for just about any character you can dream up.

An alien woman who can fly into space and shoot lightning out of her eyes? Yes.
Living Stone Golem that can manipulate rock? Totally doable.
Teenager with a high-tech skateboard and an arsenal of grenades that emit sleep gas, EMP pulses, and smoke? Absolutely.

I haven't run Champions or HERO system in a long time, but I used it exclusively for years because of its ability to model just about anything.

My thought here would be to use it for what it was made for: A four-color superhero game complete with costumes, rampant destruction, alien invaders, the whole bit. If you like the Marvel movies, you'd be right at home.

But, it's not the most popular system right now, and we've got a relatively small pool of players. Can I assemble three to six for a game like this? If so, let's talk about it. I'd be willing to consider this as an alternative to RotF.

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[Faeryl]

Y'know, I don't believe I've ever heard of this system. Regardless, I think the main thing you'll need to do is answer a few questions:

- How easy is the system to use?
Compare, for example, d&d 5th edition to... I dunno... Mutants and Masterminds. (My example) D&D is extremely popular/well-known, and 5th edition is probably the easiest of the "modern" editions to pick up and play. M&M, on the other hand, while a lot more modular is also a lot more complex. If you can't figure out how to make, say, Herolab work, you're stuck dredging through the SRD and asking a ton of questions. If I were to rate the difficulty of learning them both on a scale of 1-10 (1 being "it's super easy to learn/play" and 10 being "this is soul-crushing; I don't even understand half of this), with 5e being a 3 (because people new to d&d might have some difficulties, but it's fairly simple) and M&M being a minimum of 8, where would you rate Champions or the HERO system (whichever is what you're using)?

- What is the perceived tone of the game? Are we akin to the Avengers, heroic figures that are considered heroes by most, or are people with 'special powers' like ours considered frightening, dangerous beings that ought not to be trusted? (or anywhere in between, of course) Yes, I did read the part where you compared it to the Avengers movies, but some of those got pretty dark.

- More importantly, how easily accessible are the rules in question? Do you have a pdf or SRD-like website you can share with players, or do we need to hunt down and purchase any relevant books?

Those are all the questions I can come up with right now, but I think it's a good start.

[cailano]

Good comments, Faeryl. I'll do my best:

Ease of use: The most complex thing about the system is character creation. I can definitely help people make characters, but there will likely be much back-and-forth with questions and whatnot. I'm personally okay with this, especially in a supers game where characters are so unique. Once characters are made, I think the game plays well. There are some differences between it, and 5E and 5E are simpler. Champions have some rules that are more appropriate for a superhero game, where death is rare but getting knocked through a brick wall is fairly common. If Basic Fantasy is a 2, 5E is a 3, and GURPS is a 10, I'd put the Hero System around an 8 in terms of character creation and a 5 in terms of play. There are some books I'm going to look at to ease character creation, as well. Champions Powers, for instance.

Tone: Probably right around the tone of the Marvel movies. If we could capture that super-powered high-adventure feel, I'd consider that a huge success. Some of the Marvel movies did get fairly dark, and I'm not saying we'd never go there, but I'd aim for the typical adventures to be along the lines of Spiderman: Homecoming, Antman, and the Wasp, or the first two Avengers.

Ease of Access: There isn't an SRD for the HERO System, so people would want to get ahold of a copy of the rules. I'd recommend going right to herogames.com and either get a PDF of Champions complete ($20) or HERO System Basic Rules ($15). Physical copies are available on Amazon for around the same price. For those who can't or don't want to afford that, there are alternate ways to procure the rules, and they aren't too hard to find (I, of course, am not endorsing those methods here.) Again, I'm completely willing to help with character creation, so it would be possible for someone to play without having the rules at all.

Great questions! Please keep 'em coming, folks.

[Drew]

I've heard that Champions is a very front-loaded system, with most of its complexity being in character creation while the actual rules in play are pretty simple. Is this the case?
Does their website still offer Hero Designer? It's supposedly a Java-based program that helps you make Champions characters and handles all of the math for you.

I believe that Faeryl was asking how powered individuals are viewed by normal people. Are they looked at in awe and put on pedestals like the Avengers or are they seen as freaks and are discriminated against like the X-Men? How does society react to Champions characters?

[cailano]

Probably all of the above, depending on the person. I was thinking of using the official Champions setting, which I believe features some law-enforcement approved supers and others that operate from the shadows.

Which one the PCs end up being would probably be up to the group. I definitely want costumed heroes, though. 350 point characters with some characteristics being deactivated to make the game more PbP friendly, so that will save some points in character creation.

In game terms that makes them contenders as far as power-level goes. It would be possible to build Spiderman, Captain America , Wolverine, Colossus, and many other characters in that point range, at least at the beginning of their careers. Thor and Ironman might be a little more powerful than that.

[Faeryl]

What sort of story were you hoping to do? I have ideas from previous hero-esque characters that are merely collecting dust, but I don't know how well any would fit in with a "first two Avengers movies" style of campaign. Regardless of tone/style, I'm still highly interested.

- A magical girl with earth-based powers. She just wants to help people.
- A revolutionary with a penchant for fire and demolition (bomb-making) and a strong distrust of the government
- A Japanese school girl who mostly wants to be left alone and not be involved. "Fate" keeps dragging her into situations that require use of her ice powers to escape from.

There are others, but these are the primaries whose powersets I have some clues about.

[cailano]

Of those character concepts, I think the first would be the best fit. I'd like to form a group of characters that are motivated to go put a stop to superpowered threats, for whatever reason.

[cailano]

As far as story, I don't have it really well defined and probably won't until characters are made. You'll be in a big city at a time when the "real" hero team goes missing. Chaos ensues.

[Guest]

I've heard that Champions is a very front-loaded system, with most of its complexity being in character creation while the actual rules in play are pretty simple. Is this the case?
Does their website still offer Hero Designer? It's supposedly a Java-based program that helps you make Champions characters and handles all of the math for you.

I believe that Faeryl was asking how powered individuals are viewed by normal people. Are they looked at in awe and put on pedestals like the Avengers or are they seen as freaks and are discriminated against like the X-Men? How does society react to Champions characters?

[RaistlinMC]

Good questions! I hope someone who knows the system a heckuva lot better than I do can answer them.

[cailano]

Hi all, I agree that Champions is very "front-loaded" as you say. Character creation takes awhile because there are a lot of options, but the game itself plays pretty quickly.

That being said, it doesn't look like we've got enough interest in this one, at least not for now.