Lords of Creation Open Source

[cbolttoak]

About the maps. I noticed you are planning to use cubic maps eventually but wouldn't hexes work better for this style of gameplay? I mean it would support many existing worldmaps better? When someone shapes a map will that be represented by a token or what? Similarly will population and creatures and what not be tokens?

I'm going with a cubic design with a XYZ plot point system at the moment because the game itself will be three-dimensional. If I could come up with a way to effectively hex three dimensions without making it feel like a geometrical nightmare to picture in my head, then maybe. :p

Also a few things confuse me about the rules: Create ecosystem powers require lifeless regions. However the problem comes with shaping existing ecosystem to support extraordinary populace. It seems like you can only create extraordinary populace from mundance populace. This also means you would need to shape the mundance ecosystem where they lived to extraordinary one which is not possible since there's already populace in that region.

I had rewritten the rules in another place, due to character limitations mostly:

http://www.thetangledweb.net/forums/...ead.php?t=4191

That answers some of the questions you're asking. Basic rundown being that I changed it so a low-level ecosystem supports all higher levels, but high-level ones can't support lower ones. Now, while a deity can't shape an existing region or ecosystem, the populace there can (something I'm still in the process of working on), as well as allow them to survive in such an environment.

Also do "create extraordinary icon", "create supernatural being" and "create divine icon" actually create beings that can survive anywhere or do they require extraordinary, supernatural and cosmic ecosystems to spawn them?

At this time, they can all survive in any environment, and I've changed them all to Icons (E, S, and C).

Also what is the difference between extraordinary, supernatural and divine icons power wise? They all seem to create beings with 1 IP. Similarly what are the benefits in creating supernatural or extraordinary populace over mundane? What about cosmic?

With the Icons, they will be able to face off against lower-level Icons easily (Cosmic Icons can overpower Extraordinary ones in an even IP match) and be able to protect and serve purposes among Populaces. And I'm considering what other actions they will be able to do in the game.

I know that I'll make Cosmic Icons the only ones that can easily change from Astral to Material, for example, and that Icons that match their Region, Ecosystem, and Populace levels get bonuses of some kind (synergy kind of deal)

Me thinks one potential thing for god to earn DP from might be their own astral realm. If they have one they could start gaining extra DPs from their populace as dead souls migrate to the afterlife they have crafted for them. This would give reason to create "cosmic" regions.

While at this time I don't have a "souls" concept for the core rules (sounds like a good expansion), cosmic forces the deity creates in their plane will allow them greater access to their power, and their cosmic populaces may end up with more of their attention than the material ones.

Also when it comes to battling other gods and their followers what exactly is attacking what? Is it populace vs populace or icon vs populace or icon vs icon? How do icons interact with populace? Should terrain influence battles? So for example if you have supernatural region "buffer" between mundane attacker should there be penalties/losses for the mundane moving through that region?

Yes, definitely, had that in mind too. And the conflicts exist at every tier to every tier. Deities can curse populaces and icons, Populaces can build and tear down temples to the gods to affect their divine power, and Icons can sort of do a little of both sides. Regions and Ecosystems both will affect at least the Populace moving through or fighting in the terrain, and occasionally affect Icons as well.

How much intervention can gods have outside of their icons when it comes to battles? I.e. let's assume terrain has some effects and a god wishes for their mundane troops to have safe passage to enemy lands: they use dp to shape unoccupied supernatural land to mundane (how much this would cost anyways?), then they spend dp to send their troops to attack (is this populace or icons?). The other deity sees approaching attack but can't shape the land back to supernatural since it's now occupied. Instead of that they decide to target the enemy troops with a curse that does... what exactly? Reduces their attack rating? Reduces their populace? It would help to know what attacks.

Reshaping unoccupied supernatural to mundane would be 1 DP. Very cheap and easy to do so that keeps the world's terrain looking normal except in rare occasions. A smart deity who wants to use the supernatural land as a shield at least puts some supernatural populace in it to live in it, to keep it from being reshaped. They make an Action to attack (no DP), and then the enemy deity spends some DP to do a Curse, which would reduce the PP/IP of the attacking Populace/Icon.

Finally I hope you guys are planning to keep this simple. There's already plenty of stuff that is confusing to me.

I very much intend to keep it simple, but provide valid options open for everybody, and keep a lot of stuff open to roleplaying interpretation to encourage roleplaying foremost while still keeping a balance in actual gameplay.

[Darken Rahl]

This is very interesting... did this die or is it still in the works?

[cbolttoak]

Return.

I have returned, for now.

I did a lot of playtesting with the concept designs for Lords of Creation, tossed the numbers around, looked up other examples (and found that people have been using these mechanics elsewhere on and off site, much appreciated) and watched other examples with careful consideration.

I found three problems.

1. Simplicity. We needed the numbers to fall into the background, and roleplaying stay above them. They needed to be quick and easy numbers with clear cut results.

2. RPG gone Backwards. We were starting off at level 30 and trying to make level 1 stuff. We should have started from the dirt and made our ascent into the Astral Kingdom.

3. We're all the Game Master. The sim needs to be able to run itself, so that the players can all cooperatively build the world and interact as equals without someone's directive. There can be an established person in charge of movement, but if they give out then a new one should be easy to establish and keep momentum.

So, I completed a new design, called MESCSimRp ("Messy Sim Rip" is what I call it). My next three posts cover all the design.

This is the spine and a couple of limbs to the design, but I made it as modular as possible so that people could take this partial skeleton and adapt their own "MESC Expansions" and use them interchangably. Though I personally will not be able to playtest it for very long, I hope others will be able to take off with the idea.

Note: The rules do not give any instructions on how to play the game, only the rules of it. The players should decide how it's done according to their tastes. My personal preferance will be that there are seperate threads for numbers and roleplaying. Threads that focus on roleplaying singular individuals in a world that is constantly moving through the years would split off from the world-building into their own independent stories within the greater story.

Without further ado, MESCSimRp.

[cbolttoak]

MESCSimRP Project version 1.0: Base Rules

Terminology:
Hero: A single unique individual the player plays out in their role-playing.
Group: An affiliation of individuals that are associated and function together, controlled as this group by the player and role-played as some organized force, occasionally represented by unique individuals.
Land: An established physical location of people who associate that location with themselves, controlled by a player and role-played in a historical past-tense reference more-so than direct actions, except perhaps through major leaders or ambassadors.
Icon: A mythological or legendary individual who exists by supernatural means. Role-played by the player more in historical past-tense terminology unless it directly interacts with other individuals.
Deity: A being of cosmic power that exists on a different level of reality from the mortal world, and sees time in a much different sense, centuries passing like mere months in it’s perception. The player of it possesses unique powers that cost cosmic power to wield. May manifest as a singular being to interact with other individuals.
Points: The numeric representation of the role-playing that is being done, to quantify actions and events into small mathematical formulas that may be used to determine outcomes and generate fair competition in the role-playing. Comes in 4 types: Mundane, Extraordinary, Supernatural, and Cosmic.
Mundane Points (MP): Represents a number of basic everyday needs of people, food, shelter, clothing, pleasurable company, anything that the natural world can directly provide without sentient invention.
Extraordinary Points (EP): Represents anything created by sentient thought that is within physical understanding and science. Tools, forged weapons, furnaces, buildings with more complex purposes than shelter, etc.
Supernatural Points (SP): Represents forces beyond empirical explanation, that are manipulated by sentient process one way or another. Examples would be magic, souls, luck, and sciences that still lie well within the place of science fiction rather than science fact.
Cosmic Points (CP): Represents pure power and conscious thought, and has full command over the very reality of the material world. The ability to change the laws a section of universe functions on, spontaneous change and manipulation, altering the courses of time and space, these things are within the cosmic domain.

Gameplay:
Heroes: Every player starts off with 1 Hero with 1 MP, with an upkeep of 1 MP per year.
Hero Actions (1/year):
- Create Points: Create 10 MP.
- Convert Points: Convert 10 MP into 1 EP
- Create Group: Spend 10 MP to create a Group the player controls.

Groups: Players must create their first groups, and have an upkeep of 10 MP per year.
Group Actions (1/decade):
- Create Points: Create MP/EP up to 1000 MP in value.
- Convert Points: Convert MP/EP into EP/SP, up to 1000 MP in value.
- Create Land: Spend 10 EP and create a Land the player controls.

Lands: Players must create their first lands, and have an upkeep of 10 EP per year.
Land Actions (1/century):
- Create Points: Create MP/EP/SP up to 100,000 MP in value.
- Convert Points: Convert MP/EP/SP into EP/SP/CP, up to 100,000 MP in value.
- Create Icon: Spend 10 SP and create an Icon the player controls.

Icons: Players must create their first icons, and have an upkeep of 10 SP per year.
Icon Actions (1/millennium):
- Create Points: Create MP/EP/SP/CP up to 10,000,000 MP in value.
- Convert Points: Convert MP/EP/SP/CP into EP/SP/CP, up to 10,000,000 MP in value.
- Create Deity: Spend 10 CP and create a deity the player controls.

Deity: Players must create their first deities, and have an upkeep of 10 CP per year.
Deity Actions (1/10.000 years):
- Create Points: Create MP/EP/SP/CP up to 1,000,000,000 MP in value.
- Convert Points: Convert MP/EP/SP/CP into EP/SP/CP, up to 1,000,000,000 MP in value.
- Deity Powers: CP-based abilities that differs from deity to deity.

Project Notes: Base rules have worked in play tests without rules conflicts or disruption. Upkeep may be a possible variant or expansion rather than a base rule, but the added cost keeps the game from building too quickly. Time does play an odd role in the game, but with it working on greater scales that one person, it is difficult to find a good in-between.

[cbolttoak]

MESCSimRp Expansion CT1: Action Bonuses

Terminology:
Actor: The Hero, Group, Land, Icon, or Deity that can commit an action.

1. For all actions that create points, the action generates the following bonuses in MP (or a value-equivalent):
+1 MP for every EP the actor has.
+10 MP for every SP the actor has.
+100 MP for every CP the actor has.

2. For all actions that convert points, the action costs less MP (to a minimum of 1 MP) based on the following:
-1 MP for every EP the actor has.
-10 MP for every SP the actor has.
-100 MP for every CP the actor has.

Project Notes: Expansion definitely can use further improvements. Perhaps a set of special possessions, objects and buildings that are unique from others of it’s kind that confer a unique bonus, and could fall into possession of other players.

[cbolttoak]

MESCSimRp Expansion CT2: Actions of Conflict

Hero Actions:
- Destroy MP: Spend 1 MP. Target actor loses 1 MP.

Group Actions:
- Destroy MP: Spend 1 MP. Target actor loses 10 MP.
- Destroy EP: Spend 1 EP. Target actor loses 1 EP.

Land Actions:
- Destroy MP: Spend 1 MP. Target actor loses 100 MP.
- Destroy EP: Spend 1 EP. Target actor loses 10 EP.
- Destroy SP: Spend 1 SP. Target actor loses 1 SP.

Icon Actions:
- Destroy MP: Spend 1 MP. Target actor loses 1000 MP.
- Destroy EP: Spend 1 EP. Target actor loses 100 EP.
- Destroy SP: Spend 1 SP. Target actor loses 10 SP.
- Destroy CP: Spend 1 CP. Target actor loses 1 CP.

Deity Actions:
- Destroy MP: Spend 1 MP. Target actor loses 10000 MP.
- Destroy EP: Spend 1 EP. Target actor loses 1000 EP.
- Destroy SP: Spend 1 SP. Target actor loses 100 SP.
- Destroy CP: Spend 1 CP. Target actor loses 10 CP.

Project Notes: Could definitely use further complex design, but starting with simplistic combat designs that create clear reasons to conflict with one another.